The thin line between Sanctification and Justification

Discussion in 'Systematic Theology' started by TL Bland, Sep 26, 2017.

  1. TL Bland New Member
    TL Bland

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    Theology:
    I have no clue.
    Some people think that the whole of sanctification is like justification in the sense that it is an immediate act of God whereby he causes us to achieve perfect holiness in thought and conduct, and this implies that true Christians no longer commit sins. Does sanctification begin at regeneration ? The Bible describes it as a growth process, so that a person increasingly thinks and behaves in a way that pleases God, and that conforms to the likeness of Christ.
    A number of passages in the Bible give the impression that a person ceases to sin altogether after regeneration.
    For example, John says, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God" (1 John 3:9).
    In a Bible class I took a year ago the question came up, Is a person truly saved if His actions do not change.?
    The example given was a drug addict coming to Salvation in the outward formalities of saying they believe and receiving the prayer from the pastor, and then the next day going back to using drugs.
    The class became a heated argument of " Once saved always saved" on one side and the other side arguing "The person never truly received Salvation"..
    I'm confused on this issue because the Bible has different Scriptures that could support either side.
     
  2. Illuminator is a Verified MemberIlluminator Moderator
    Illuminator

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    Justification is a process by which we are made right with God, via his holy Spirit within us enabling us to resist and overcome sin, to become more and more renewed in the image of the Creator–made holier and holier, in other words. Justification and sanctification, while distinct concepts, are undeniably intertwined:

    Martin Luther said: “There is no justification without sanctification …”

    Sanctification is a part of justification, and vice-versa. As we’re made “right” with God, we’re made “holy,” as well. How can we be right with him, in the first place, without being “holy”? Cooperating with his Grace, we allow our holiness to grow; in allowing our holiness to grow, we become increasingly pleasing in the eyes of Our Maker. Ultimately, it is he who initiates and finishes this, however. We simply choose whether or not to allow him to do so, and at any given point in time we can stop this process.
     
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  3. TL Bland New Member
    TL Bland

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    Theology:
    I have no clue.
    Thank you for the response.
    Not long ago a young man joined our church. He was a recovering addict. My husband counseled him for months. This young man accepted Christ as his Savior and was baptist as well. He was doing well and staying involved for about four months. Slowly you could see the gradual descent back to his old self. In time we never saw him in church. Months later we found out that he was back on the streets using drugs again. We reach out to him often.
    My husband and I disagree about this subject. He believes the young man was saved and has sinned. I tend to agree with your statement, that had turned from the process of salvation.
    Many people have opposing views.
    When does the process of salvation complete and become a saved soul that has sinned?
     
  4. Anthony D'Arienzo is a Verified MemberAnthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member
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    Tl....this area is a vital area of study.
    Justification is a one time act of God toward us.
    Sanctification is distinct in that it is progressive.
    When God regenerates a person they continue on in the faith.
    Some people make a false profession and like in mt.13 they having no root in themselves they fall away.
    A saved person is saved from the practice of sin.
    A person who makes an emotional decision but is never indwelt by the Spirit...will depart rom8:9....1jn 2:19
     
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  5. Anthony D'Arienzo is a Verified MemberAnthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member
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    #5 Anthony D'Arienzo is a Verified MemberAnthony D'Arienzo, Sep 26, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
    TL BLAND;
    This might be helpful;

    http://vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc00.html

    Chapter 11: Of Justification
    1._____ Those whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth, not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone; not by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing Christ's active obedience unto the whole law, and passive obedience in his death for their whole and sole righteousness by faith, which faith they have not of themselves; it is the gift of God.
    ( Romans 3:24; Romans 8:30; Romans 4:5-8; Ephesians 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:30, 31; Romans 5:17-19; Philippians 3:8, 9; Ephesians 2:8-10; John 1:12; Romans 5:17 )
    2._____ Faith thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet it is not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love.
    ( Romans 3:28; Galatians 5:6; James 2:17, 22, 26 )

    3._____ Christ, by his obedience and death, did fully discharge the debt of all those that are justified; and did, by the sacrifice of himself in the blood of his cross, undergoing in their stead the penalty due unto them, make a proper, real, and full satisfaction to God's justice in their behalf; yet, inasmuch as he was given by the Father for them, and his obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead, and both freely, not for anything in them, their justification is only of free grace, that both the exact justice and rich grace of God might be glorified in the justification of sinners.
    ( Hebrews 10:14; 1 Peter 1:18, 19; Isaiah 53:5, 6; Romans 8:32; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 3:26; Ephesians 1:6,7; Ephesians 2:7 )

    4._____ God did from all eternity decree to justify all the elect, and Christ did in the fullness of time die for their sins, and rise again for their justification; nevertheless, they are not justified personally, until the Holy Spirit doth in time due actually apply Christ unto them.
    ( Galatians 3:8; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Timothy 2:6; Romans 4:25; Colossians 1:21,22; Titus 3:4-7 )

    5._____ God doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified, and although they can never fall from the state of justification, yet they may, by their sins, fall under God's fatherly displeasure; and in that condition they have not usually the light of his countenance restored unto them, until they humble themselves, confess their sins, beg pardon, and renew their faith and repentance.
    ( Matthew 6:12; 1 John 1:7, 9; John 10:28; Psalms 89:31-33; Psalms 32:5; Psalms 51; Matthew 26:75 )

    6._____ The justification of believers under the Old Testament was, in all these respects, one and the same with the justification of believers under the New Testament.
    ( Galatians 3:9; Romans 4:22-24 )
     
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    Chapter 13: Of Sanctification
    1._____ They who are united to Christ, effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, are also farther sanctified, really and personally, through the same virtue, by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them; the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified, and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to the practice of all true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
    ( Acts 20:32; Romans 6:5, 6; John 17:17; Ephesians 3:16-19; 1 Thessalonians 5:21-23; Romans 6:14; Galatians 5:24; Colossians 1:11; 2 Corinthians 7:1; Hebrews 12:14 )
    2._____This sanctification is throughout the whole man, yet imperfect in this life; there abideth still some remnants of corruption in every part, whence ariseth a continual and irreconcilable war; the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh.
    ( 1 Thessalonians 5:23; Romans 7:18, 23; Galatians 5:17; 1 Peter 2:11 )

    3._____ In which war, although the remaining corruption for a time may much prevail, yet through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part doth overcome; and so the saints grow in grace, perfecting holiness in the fear of God, pressing after an heavenly life, in evangelical obedience to all the commands which Christ as Head and King, in His Word hath prescribed them.
    ( Romans 7:23; Romans 6:14; Ephesians 4:15, 16; 2 Corinthians 3:18; 2 Corinthians 7:1 )
     
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  7. TL Bland New Member
    TL Bland

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    Theology:
    I have no clue.
    These two points have given me clarity..
    Thank you Anthony
     
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  8. TheWordSmith is a Verified MemberTheWordSmith Well-Known Member
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    #8 TheWordSmith is a Verified MemberTheWordSmith, Sep 26, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017

    I am not sure exactly what you mean here, but it is my understanding that when one accepts Christ they are as saved as they are ever going to be. They are not yet mature and will grow in Christ, but they are not less saved than the mature believer. Since we believe that the Spirit indwells all that are in Christ, as we grow we submit more to Him but His indwelling is not increased by our growth.



    Agree with this statement.



    I would just add that I believe our spirit is sanctified at salvation.

    1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

    Our mind and bodies are progressively sanctified through our growth in Christ and willful submission to the word of God. That is maturity in a believer.

    1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

    2 Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
     
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  9. Anthony D'Arienzo is a Verified MemberAnthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member
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    Chapter 17: Of The Perseverance of the Saints
    1._____ Those whom God hath accepted in the beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, and given the precious faith of his elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, whence he still begets and nourisheth in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality; and though many storms and floods arise and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock which by faith they are fastened upon; notwithstanding, through unbelief and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of the light and love of God may for a time be clouded and obscured from them, yet he is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being engraven upon the palm of his hands, and their names having been written in the book of life from all eternity.
    ( John 10:28, 29; Philippians 1:6; 2 Timothy 2:19; 1 John 2:19; Psalms 89:31, 32; 1 Corinthians 11:32; Malachi 3:6 )
    2._____ This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ and union with him, the oath of God, the abiding of his Spirit, and the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.
    ( Romans 8:30 Romans 9:11, 16; Romans 5:9, 10; John 14:19; Hebrews 6:17, 18; 1 John 3:9; Jeremiah 32:40 )

    3._____ And though they may, through the temptation of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein, whereby they incur God's displeasure and grieve his Holy Spirit, come to have their graces and comforts impaired, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded, hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves, yet shall they renew their repentance and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus to the end.
    ( Matthew 26:70, 72, 74; Isaiah 64:5, 9; Ephesians 4:30; Psalms 51:10, 12; Psalms 32:3, 4; 2 Samuel 12:14; Luke 22:32, 61, 62 )
    Yes i agree, in fact there is a setting apart that takes place at our election, i was speaking more in reference to the idea that all saved persons will have good works that accompany salvation, but in no way does the good works cause justification.
    Heb2
    11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

    heb10
    10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

    12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

    13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
     
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  10. Anthony D'Arienzo is a Verified MemberAnthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member
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    Illuminator,

    God does what He will....we do not "allow" anything.

    [QUOTE]Cooperating with his Grace, we allow our holiness to grow; in allowing our holiness to grow, we become increasingly pleasing in the eyes of Our Make[/QUOTE]

    God works in real Christians....
    6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
     
  11. You're going to get very different answers from Catholics and Protestants on this one, the Catholic conflates the bibles teaching on Justification and Sanctification to justify it's works based doctrine of infused righteousness.

    Correctly understand Justification is a declarartion by God that we are just in his sight - it is accompanied by an immediate sanctification (setting apart by God and for God) which is the progressively realized in our lives (but never perfectly so in this life) until we might Jesus on the day of judgement at which point our sanctification becomes total.

    The difference between a saved person and an unsaved person is not that one sins and the others does not - it is that one hates their sin and the other does not! A drug addict could be converted, though your definition is not conversion, and fall back into the sin of their addiction for all kinds of reasons - that fall does not automatically negate his confession of faith anymore then the daily sin you and commit negates the confession of our faith.
     
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  12. Illuminator is a Verified MemberIlluminator Moderator
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    #12 Illuminator is a Verified MemberIlluminator, Oct 11, 2017 at 12:36 AM
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017 at 12:46 AM
    That is patently false. "works based doctrine" is a heresy called Pelagianism, condemned by the Church 1000 years before the first Protestant was born.This kind of psychotic anti-Catholic gibberish floods the internet. Do you believe very lie ever printed against the CC???
    What has the Catholic Church done to you personally that motivates you to bear false witness and misrepresent the way you do?


    [​IMG]
     
  13. Anthony D'Arienzo is a Verified MemberAnthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member
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    Reformed Baptist,

    Once again you have quite correctly identified a major problem...it is a shame you are not allowed to continue helping people see the truth for themselves.

    Yes....solid...

    Yes...i would like to see more of this kind of bible based posting in that your offering can be backed up with several key scriptures and I know which verses you would offer.
     
  14. Anthony D'Arienzo is a Verified MemberAnthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member
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    Illuminator,

    Once again you attack a person who cannot defend himself??? very brave on your part..:cold_sweat:

    Correct...however semi pelagian roman teaching is still heresy...
    if you put a cup full of poison into a gallon of wholesome milk....is it still wholesome, or poison?:sweat:

    More hate speech against a person who is not here: unamused:

    he has not said it did anything to him...he just objectively sees the truth and rejects the error. He is not bearing false witness at all but speaking the truth in love.

    :neutral:​
     

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